Nino Pronounshe/him The Fame Popster 451 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 The company that invented kpop and has dominated for the past 25 years just announced their next generation group. leaked tea about the group Spoiler The group is expected to have 4 members from China, Japan, and Korea. 1st confirmed member: Yoo Jimin(20 years old) - has been a dancer in various kpop videos in the past 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Deactivated 14,311 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Perched to see what comes of this! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorde Von Kok PronounsHe/Him Gaming Leader 8,440 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 This next big group will be THE one that are the same age as me (2000) ! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG PronounsHe/Him Moderator 6,288 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Seems like when a new iPhone is released. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paradox ARTPOPster 1,158 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Interesting name. I'm perched. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joannesrats PronounsHe/Him Community Leader 2,817 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Are people genuinely excited about music and performers that are this manufactured? It's literally music that has become a product and it's disgusting. They are truly announcing this like these people are a product, a new computer. It cheapens the value of the music sooo much when it comes down to who they thought could make them the most money. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorde Von Kok PronounsHe/Him Gaming Leader 8,440 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 17 minutes ago, Joannesrats said: Are people genuinely excited about music and performers that are this manufactured? It's literally music that has become a product and it's disgusting. They are truly announcing this like these people are a product, a new computer. It cheapens the value of the music sooo much when it comes down to who they thought could make them the most money. I'll agree with you. I really don't like the K-POP industry, but I'm still excited to see what this new group will bring to the table. If I care and I like, I'll stream, but I think how they are « selected » and « trained » is very inhuman. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Pronounshe/him The Fame Popster 451 Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 15 minutes ago, Joannesrats said: Are people genuinely excited about music and performers that are this manufactured? It's literally music that has become a product and it's disgusting. They are truly announcing this like these people are a product, a new computer. It cheapens the value of the music sooo much when it comes down to who they thought could make them the most money. The singer-songwriter is a modern invention, not one created for artistic merit either. The singer-songwriter was invented as a marketing gimmick at first. If you understood music and weren't just making an attempt to be pretentious you'd know that traditionally the people who perform music and the people who create music have historically been completely separate disciplines. If performing somebody else's song is disgusting and manufactured than that means half of ARTPOP and Joanne are a sin against art. People get excited when a new group is announced from a major kpop company because it means that these artists have intensively trained for years to be amazing performers. It has nothing to do with iPhones. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Pronounshe/him The Fame Popster 451 Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 Just now, Lorde Von Kok said: I'll agree with you. I really don't like the K-POP industry, but I'm still excited to see what this new group will bring to the table. If I care and I like, I'll stream, but I think how they are « selected » and « trained » is very inhuman. No different than the way sports teams are built Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorde Von Kok PronounsHe/Him Gaming Leader 8,440 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Nino said: No different than the way sports teams are built Who listens to sports here except the bird aka @Twitter ? Spoiler Kidding, there's obvisouly a lot of people into sports. I'm not for example, including that reason. I do believe although that the K-POP industry is far more severe on their trainees. Edited October 25, 2020 by Lorde Von Kok 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joannesrats PronounsHe/Him Community Leader 2,817 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Nino said: The singer-songwriter is a modern invention, not one created for artistic merit either. The singer-songwriter was invented as a marketing gimmick at first. If you understood music and weren't just making an attempt to be pretentious you'd know that traditionally the people who perform music and the people who create music have historically been completely separate disciplines. If performing somebody else's song is disgusting and manufactured than that means half of ARTPOP and Joanne are a sin against art. People get excited when a new group is announced from a major kpop company because it means that these artists have intensively trained for years to be amazing performers. It has nothing to do with iPhones. "If I understood music" dude I have a degree in it!! I think I have a good handle on it. I just said it was disgusting how it's been so commodified. We don't even know these people but they're going to sell great because they are truly being marketed as a product. I never discredited their talent, nor did I discredit anything else. I just said that I don't know how someone can enjoy it when it is pretty much music at end-stage capitalism. A company is making these groups and basing them off of what they think will sell well. That is the ONLY reason why BTS put out a song like Dynamite, which is really a song about nothing. Also, the whole singer-writer argument is null. Most singer-songwriters either never wanted to become a famous performer and they just wanted to write those songs. Also, I'm not sure why you're bringing ARTPOP and Joanne into that conversation. If I recall, the only song that Gaga didn't have a big handle on for writing was Come To Mama. And that STILL has no bearing in this conversation about the commodification of music in the Kpop market. And I know it doesn't have anything to do with iPhones. I'm not an idiot like you made me out to be - I brought that up because it's pretty much an announcement of something people will buy from a company people have bought from before. The entire Kpop industry, and most American/European music markets, are entirely focused on making record label execs money. However, in kpop, it gets to a point where they go through a training camp and get matched up with people they don't have any strong connection to and sing songs they did not write because record label execs think they know best. It is not authentic and it does cheapen the music. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Pronounshe/him The Fame Popster 451 Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Lorde Von Kok said: Who listens to sports here except the bird aka @Twitter ? Hide contents Kidding, there's obvisouly a lot of people into sports. I'm not for example, including that reason. I do believe although that the K-POP industry is far more severe on their trainees. Personally I like the kpop system because at the end of the day pop music is always going to be created in boardrooms. Kpop just has an extra layer of going to great lengths to ensure the individual artists are actually talented. Before aespa has even debuted, it can be guaranteed that the vocalist has been seeing world class vocal trainers, the dancer in the op has been dancing with another dance-focused act for almost 2 years, etc. Imo if there's a place for Ariana Grande having 9 writers on the most generic song I've ever heard there's a place for kpop stars doing the same too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joannesrats PronounsHe/Him Community Leader 2,817 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, Lorde Von Kok said: Who listens to sports here except the bird aka @Twitter ? Hide contents Kidding, there's obvisouly a lot of people into sports. I'm not for example, including that reason. I do believe although that the K-POP industry is far more severe on their trainees. I watch football, he isn't the only one here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joannesrats PronounsHe/Him Community Leader 2,817 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Just now, Nino said: Personally I like the kpop system because at the end of the day pop music is always going to be created in boardrooms. Kpop just has an extra layer of going to great lengths to ensure the individual artists are actually talented. Before aespa has even debuted, it can be guaranteed that the vocalist has been seeing world class vocal trainers, the dancer in the op has been dancing with another dance-focused act for almost 2 years, etc. Imo if there's a place for Ariana Grande having 9 writers on the most generic song I've ever heard there's a place for kpop stars doing the same too. There's definitely a space and a market for it but it generates the Walmart brand of music. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorde Von Kok PronounsHe/Him Gaming Leader 8,440 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 I made a silly joke, it's obvious not only one person watch sports. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG PronounsHe/Him Moderator 6,288 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Nino said: Personally I like the kpop system because at the end of the day pop music is always going to be created in boardrooms. Kpop just has an extra layer of going to great lengths to ensure the individual artists are actually talented. Before aespa has even debuted, it can be guaranteed that the vocalist has been seeing world class vocal trainers, the dancer in the op has been dancing with another dance-focused act for almost 2 years, etc. Imo if there's a place for Ariana Grande having 9 writers on the most generic song I've ever heard there's a place for kpop stars doing the same too. Tbf Nino, comparing s Kpop artist to someone having writers isn't really fair. This video for example is a good example of what @Joannesrats means. I'm not saying this is what happens with all Kpop artists but this was only a few years back and was aired on the BBC. It's a documentary of my favorite Kpop group but in one scene they showed what the selection process it. It's also mentioned in the documentary that these Kpop stars aren't even required to be good singers. I imagine this is common practice in the Korean music industry. It's timestamped. Edited October 26, 2020 by SLAG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joannesrats PronounsHe/Him Community Leader 2,817 Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, SLAG said: Tbf nino, comparing s Kpop artist to someone having writers isn't really fair. This video for example is a good example of what @Joannesrats means. I'm not saying this is what happens with all Kpop artists but this was only a few years back and was aired on the BBC. It's a documentary of my favorite Kpop group but in one scene they showed what the selection process it. I imagine this is common practice in the Korean music industry. It's timestamped. Honestly, it happens with almost all kpop groups. And it doesn't make artists - it makes employees. The 'artists' are the ones that are making the music, producing it, writing it. Most of these people are singing someone else's song for a check. And yes, this happens in America, too, but we don't have these training programs that are years long that completely exploit and ruin people. They have no control over what they do, who they do it with, when they do it, or where they do it. It's sickening. We can't support this type of exploitation and behavior when this is what caused Gaga to break under Troy Carter. Edited October 26, 2020 by Joannesrats Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Pronounshe/him The Fame Popster 451 Posted October 26, 2020 Author Share Posted October 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Joannesrats said: I just said it was disgusting how it's been so commodified. We don't even know these people but they're going to sell great because they are truly being marketed as a product. Lady Gaga is equally commodified. 2 minutes ago, Joannesrats said: A company is making these groups and basing them off of what they think will sell well. That is the ONLY reason why BTS put out a song like Dynamite, which is really a song about nothing. As is most top 40 music. I don't like BTS or Dynamite either. But like I said, Positions is going #1 this week and is the most generic song I've ever heard with more writers than seems plausible. 2 minutes ago, Joannesrats said: Also, the whole singer-writer argument is null. Most singer-songwriters either never wanted to become a famous performer and they just wanted to write those songs. Objectively not true. Singer-songwriters were irrelevant until the 60s when record labels realized they could save a buck and market their acts as more talented by picking up people who can write too(not a hard skill with modern pop music). 4 minutes ago, Joannesrats said: Also, I'm not sure why you're bringing ARTPOP and Joanne into that conversation. If I recall, the only song that Gaga didn't have a big handle on for writing was Come To Mama. This one is going to be long so let me spoiler it Spoiler Almost all of these songs received credits that look identical to the songs Gaga "wrote". She wrote lyrics and not music and not even that for CTM or PI, and these are just the songs we've heard about her not making herself. It's relevant because not only is Lady Gaga equally as commercialized as any kpop group, she's also never been shy about singing somebody else's song, because it isn't wrong and doesn't make her any less of a singer. 10 minutes ago, Joannesrats said: I brought that up because it's pretty much an announcement of something people will buy from a company people have bought from before. The company debuting this group has a 25 year legacy of putting out extremely talented popstars and sparing no expense on getting the best writers and producers to work for them. I could show you performances so impressive that your initial reaction would be to say they're prerecorded or lipsynced. 11 minutes ago, Joannesrats said: The entire Kpop industry, and most American/European music markets, are entirely focused on making record label execs money. However, in kpop, it gets to a point where they go through a training camp and get matched up with people they don't have any strong connection to and sing songs they did not write because record label execs think they know best. It is not authentic and it does cheapen the music. In America, you get a label push if you're marketable. In Korea, they train you for years and then only push you if you're marketable. It's not this massive difference you're making it out to be, just an added layer on top specifically to make sure these artists are capable(unlike the Selena Gomez's and Britney Spears's of America). Miley Cyrus had to fight her record label for a year to get out her upcoming album, and even then its not going to be the full on rock record she clearly wants to put out. The businesspeople are very much pulling the strings here too. I think what's more of a difference is the way kpop is marketed. There's an understanding that the best singer in the group gets the most lines, the best dancer is pushed up in front in the group in live performances, the clothes are picked out by stylists who were properly educated, the people actually making the songs are professionals, etc, etc. They leave every aspect of it's creation to capable professionals. They're not pretending that each artist is some kind of savant who bleeds for their art and understands every aspect of it intimately. 24 minutes ago, Joannesrats said: There's definitely a space and a market for it but it generates the Walmart brand of music. The absolute most successful kpop stars of all time(in asia, not in the us) actually are in control of their music, just like most of the people at the top of the western industry are. When somebody in a kpop group has an interest in developing their musical talent beyond performing, they're always allowed to. It's just that most of them don't have that interest and don't pull the Beyonce/Madonna game of changing one word in a song for writing credits to pretend. This is the most successful kpop idol ever. She has 2 of the 5 best selling kpop songs ever(no the BTS feature isn't one of them, I just linked it cause it's her most recent smash hit). Several others in the top 10. She wrote this song. The only credits on the whole song are her, the bts member who rapped on it, and her producer. This is arguably the other most successful kpop idol ever. He has sold out Arenas or stadiums in every country around the world both solo and with his group. Again this song has 3 people credited, and one of them was just a producer. He's earned more in royalties than any other songwriter in kpop and has still sold more records with his various projects than BTS or Blackpink could hope to see anytime soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Pronounshe/him The Fame Popster 451 Posted October 26, 2020 Author Share Posted October 26, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, SLAG said: Tbf Nino, comparing s Kpop artist to someone having writers isn't really fair. This video for example is a good example of what @Joannesrats means. I'm not saying this is what happens with all Kpop artists but this was only a few years back and was aired on the BBC. It's a documentary of my favorite Kpop group but in one scene they showed what the selection process it. It's also mentioned in the documentary that these Kpop stars aren't even required to be good singers. I imagine this is common practice in the Korean music industry. It's timestamped. That's a failed group from an unpopular company. They were manufactured and untalented and ceased to exist very quickly. Trainees aren't under contract until they debut and as such have complete freedom. Beyond that, there's been huge legal reform as to what's allowed and not allowed in kpop contracts since 9 Muses. It's totally normal for senior Trainees to leave/switch companies on a whim, or even leave groups after they debut. This is the actual most popular girl group from that generation of kpop. Timestamped to the dance break and typical cheesy kpop belting competition that happens over the bridge and final chorus of every song. The people at the top are extremely talented because of the trainee system. https://youtu.be/EsG0sJPgteQ?t=154 Edited October 26, 2020 by Nino 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Pronounshe/him The Fame Popster 451 Posted October 26, 2020 Author Share Posted October 26, 2020 If the most successful kpop idols actually have creative control, and the kpop system isn't a human rights abuse like it was in very few cases that were solved with litigation and updated laws, and the american people aren't writing their songs too, there's only one thing left I can think would be your problem with it. Absolutely not a cute look, check your biases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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